11 Questions with Thanhha Lai

Thanhha wrote one of my favorite books, Inside Out and Back Again, a prose poem that won the National Book Award and a Newbery Honor. The story is about a child who fled Vietnam after the Fall of Saigon and immigrated to Alabama. The sequel, When Clouds Touch Us, just came out!

1. I love how, instead of writing "I like eggs," or "I tap my foot," you write "I love soft yolk dipped in bread" or "I tap my big toe on the tile floor." How do you come up with these details? (For example, do you visualize them in your head, or go about acting them out, or draw them, or look at photos?) I'm curious how you get such perfect specificity.

I think in terms of images because my first language is Vietnamese, which is naturally lyrical and visual. And I love details, which I learned to notice as a journalist. It’s definitely not conscious because if I planned it, my words would have read forced. All these images have become part of me.

2. In your 2023 piece in The Washington Post, you mentioned that you outlined the book that became Inside Out. How do you go about structuring Inside Out? (For instance, how did you think of it in terms of acts, or did you base it on a Hero's Journey kind of outline, or did you write a sentence or two describing what each chapter would be about?)

I outlined it according to historical events. April 30 anchored the plot because that’s the day Saigon fell. Then I needed to tell what happened before and after. Tết bookended the novel to emphasized cultural displacement. I filled in the year according to events in a ten year old’s pivotal year. 

3. Being a writer is so lonely! You've talked about this, and I can imagine it's especially hard for a writer like you, because it sometimes takes you 15+ years to write a book. I'm curious about how you've dealt with the loneliness, especially when you were an unpublished NYU MFA graduate waiting tables. People often say "keep going" but what do you do to keep yourself going, especially when you're starting out and it seems like nobody cares? What do you know now that you wish you'd known then?

I did write into the void for years and years. Believe me, I tried to quit many times but always picked up words again because nothing was as thrilling as getting a sentence right. Even when things click, there is the loneliness. Now I’ve learned to leave my desk as often as possible. In the beginning planning stages, I walk and talk into an app called Otter about voice, plot, characters, tone, pacing. The app turns all that dictation into sentences, ready to be copied into Word. When I do sit down, I have hundreds of pages to edit. Probably 5% might end up in a novel, but it gives me words to play with. I would love to write the whole novel while waking, biking, swimming, jogging, but unfortunately writing is a slow, sedentary craft. To get to THE END, I do have to sit still and quietly and type.

4. You've talked about finding your voice when you went to a playground at 110th and Central Park, where all these images started coming back to you and then you were inside the mind of a little girl standing on a playground in Montgomery, Ala. What happened that day? Did you take notes? How did you hold onto that voice when it didn't show up for you?

I was a new mom and barely sleeping, so definitely not taking notes. It was more of a recognition that the last time I was in a playground was way back in Alabama. Then all the feelings of that time returned in flashes of images. More like a fast montage. Then quick phrases to describe the images. Then remembering that was how I thought. And an elation that this is how Hà would tell her story.

5. In so many cases, you found the perfect scene to depict an issue. For example, I thought it was so much more powerful to show characters pretending to like fried chicken than to say "it was an adjustment to the new culture." How did you go about picking the scenes you ended up depicting? (For example, did you write a bunch of things and throw out what you didn't think worked? Did you make a list of all the scenes you might write and pick from that?)

Show, not tell. That was drummed into us in workshops. Obviously Hà’s story would involve cultural shock. I brought in my real stories. I hated fried chicken, hot dogs. So I used the memories to show how the character would experience cultural shock without analyzing it for the readers. I used to tell my students constantly: don’t explain, just show the story. Trust readers to get it. They will appreciate your writing more.

6. How did you go about studying writing? I know you said you looked up every word in Where the Red Fern Grows when learning English. Did you also read craft books, take classes, do writing exercises? Any that stood out? When you're reading like a writer, what do you look for to learn from what others write? For example, do you take notes? Do you memorize passages?

I learned English by looking up words. Writing was a long process. I would tear apart novels to see how a guy author established voice, settings, tone, how to introduce and develop characters. The last thing I thought about was plot. But I’m learning. I’m horrible at creating suspense. I just don’t care. 

One professor had us type out passages that we loved to feel how words moved on the page. I read for voice, the stronger the better, like Kingsolver’s Demon Copperhead. And I’m trying for humor, like Wilson’s Nothing To See Here.

I had a notebook of sentences I loved. Then I started writing my own. Every novel I add in something else. 

7. What is your revision process like? How has it changed since you were an MFA student?

I’m getting faster because I can no longer sit still for 15 years for a project. I start with walking and talking into Otter, then I arrange what I think might be the order of telling, meaning when to reveal what. Then I type notes in bold as I put chapters together. That’s to remind me to bring some detail up later or to go back and make sure to put a bicycle in so the character can ride it later. That cuts out a lot of work for my editor. I like to polish one chapter at a time. So as I write, I read through and edit more and more chapters before I can add new writing. I don’t recommend this, it takes so long. But that’s how I started, so I’ve trained my brain to like polished before going on. But other authors draft the entire novel, then polish the entire thing. Do not be like me. Do the quicker version.

8. A huge part of Inside Out and Back Again is the setting. It has its own kind of character arc, going from safe-ish to dangerous to completely different and hostile in its own kind of way. Did you think of the setting as a character? Or how did you think of it?

I didn’t think about setting. It was part of the character. I had to show the world she came from to dramatize where she landed. I think if you really know your character, the setting is automatic.

9. What are some things that frighten you about being a writer? How do you still struggle today and how do you deal with it? 

The idea of will anyone care. Yes, I love words and crafting but people have to read them to make sitting still worthwhile. I’m not frightened so much as annoyed. I indulge in it then have to put all that away. When deep into a novel, it’s just me and my words. I have to get that focused to get to the end. 

10. You've done a handful of interviews. It seems like people ask you the same questions over and over. What's a question you've never been asked but always wanted to be asked, and what's the answer?

People are reading less and less, why write for them?

Because I don’t need the entire planet to read my work, I just need the ones who float while interacting with my words. I have no idea where or who they are. But once in a while I get an email, and it reaffirms that at least reader reads closely. Good enough. 

11. I know you were a refugee from Vietnam and that the stories of what happened are, as you've put it, "in your DNA." But when it was actually happening and you were about ten years old, what did you understand about what was going on and how has that changed since you wrote about that experience?

I lie for a living so I have no idea what really happened, outside of historical facts, versus what I’ve transformed in my memories. I remembered the feelings I really felt when I was ten. That was enough to write from.